In this conversation, ultra runner David Roche discusses his journey in the sport, his coaching philosophy, and the importance of community and vulnerability in running. He shares insights on balancing personal goals with coaching responsibilities, the mindset required for ultra races, and the significance of running economy in performance.

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Roche emphasizes the need for athletes to embrace vulnerability and shoot for big goals, while also highlighting the collaborative nature of coaching with his partner, Megan Roche. In this conversation, David and Jeff explore the intricacies of ultra running, focusing on training adaptations, the importance of community support, and the evolving understanding of training metrics. They discuss the balance between volume and quality in training, the role of cross training, and the significance of emotional support during races. David shares his personal experiences and insights on how to approach ultra running with a mindset of curiosity and openness, emphasizing the importance of community in the sport.

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Some Work All Play Podcast

takeaways

-David Roche emphasizes the importance of community in ultra running.

-He believes in a non-zero-sum approach to coaching.

-Vulnerability is a key aspect of the athlete's journey.

-The mindset of 'shooting your shot' is crucial for success.

-Running economy is essential for ultra performance.

-Strides can significantly improve running economy.

-Coaching is a collaborative process between David and Megan Roche.

-David's journey to the Leadville record was fueled by a desire to model vulnerability.

-The process of training should be anchored in fun.

-David encourages athletes to pursue big, scary goals. Adaptation in training -can lead to significant performance improvements.

-Quality of training often outweighs quantity in ultra running.

-Cross training can enhance running economy and reduce injury risk.

-Challenging traditional training norms can lead to better long-term results.

-RPE should be calibrated with physiological metrics for better training outcomes.

-Community support plays a crucial role in ultra running success.

-Emotional resilience is key to overcoming challenges in races.

-Understanding the science behind training can help redefine personal limits.

-The importance of fueling strategies in ultra running cannot be overstated.

-Embracing a mindset of curiosity can enhance the running experience.

Sound Bites

"It's not a zero sum game."

"We are all in it together."

"Life is short."

"I had to model that."

"What are we all capable of?"

"Shoot your shot."

"The process is about vulnerability."

"The Holy Grail of running."

"Heat is a part of training."

"I want to be done for a late dinner."

"We are in this together."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to David Roche and His Achievements

02:57 The Science of Training and Coaching Philosophy

05:54 Balancing Personal Goals with Coaching Responsibilities

09:05 The Journey to the Leadville Record

11:59 Mindset and Preparation for Ultra Races

14:49 The Impact of Community and Vulnerability in Running

17:47 Running Economy and Its Importance

21:13 Coaching Dynamics with Megan Roche

29:30 The Power of Adaptation in Training

32:20 Training Framework for Ultra Runners

34:41 The Role of Cross Training in Performance

36:24 Challenging Traditional Training Norms

38:28 Understanding RPE and Heart Rate in Training

40:32 Future Aspirations in Ultra Running

47:32 The Importance of Community and Support in Ultra Running

keywords: David Roche, ultra running, Leadville 100, coaching, running economy, training science, vulnerability, community, mindset, personal growth, ultra running, training, adaptation, cross training, heart rate, community support, performance, running economy, mental resilience, athlete coaching

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Dean Karnazes joins the show to share his incredible running journey. We discuss his unique perspective on running as a form of play, his ambitious goals, and the cultural differences in trail running across the globe. He reflects on the evolution of ultra running, his early experiences, and the spirit of adventure that drives him. Karnazes also touches on the challenges of storytelling and navigating his public persona as a well-known figure in the ultra-running community.

In this engaging conversation, Dean Karnazes shares his experiences and insights from over three decades in ultra running. He discusses the challenges and rewards of competing at an older age, the mental preparation required for long races, and the power of perseverance in the face of adversity. Dean also reflects on the relatability of running stories, the journey of writing his first book, and the evolution of trail running. He offers valuable advice for aspiring runners and storytellers, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and the courage to pursue one's passions.

Check out Dean's Books: https://amzn.to/4fp6X8n

Takeaways

• Dean Karnazes has completed numerous ultra marathons and unique challenges.
• He views running as a form of play and adventure.
• Karnazes has ambitious goals, including running from the Dead Sea to Mount Everest.
• Stage racing presents different challenges compared to traditional races.
• Cultural differences impact the popularity of trail running worldwide.
• The growth of trail running is increasing in both the US and Europe.
• Karnazes's early experiences in ultra running were marked by a lack of information and support.
• The spirit of adventure is a driving force in Karnazes's life.
• Storytelling became a significant aspect of Karnazes's journey in ultra running.
• Navigating public recognition has been a personal growth experience for Karnazes. Dean Karnazes continues to inspire younger runners despite his age.
• The ultra running scene has evolved significantly over the years.
• Mental preparation is crucial for enduring long races.
• Perseverance can lead to rewarding experiences, even in tough races.
• Relatable stories in running can inspire a broader audience.
• Writing a book was a personal challenge for Dean.
• The book tour experience was both grueling and rewarding.
• Curiosity drives Dean to seek new adventures in running.
• It's common to take on more challenges than one can handle.
• The trail running community is growing and evolving.

Sound Bites

• "I always try to view running as a form of play."
• "There's a lot of logistics involved."
• "I never looked at myself as a competitive athlete."
• "I'm fucking old and people still race me."
• "I'm gonna try my best at this race."
• "Not everyone can have a VO2 max like Killian's."
• "Can you write a good book?"
• "I've got so many stories."
• "It's about an experience, right? A race experience."

Chapters

00:00 The Journey of Dean Karnazes

02:09 Running as Play: A Unique Perspective

03:52 Ambitious Goals: From Badwater to Everest

05:57 Stage Racing: A Different Kind of Challenge

08:08 Cultural Differences in Trail Running

11:30 The Evolution of Ultra Running

12:03 The Early Days of Ultra Running

18:09 The Spirit of Adventure

20:39 Storytelling and Public Persona

23:28 The Endurance of Age and Competition

24:50 Exploring New Challenges in Ultra Running

27:13 Mental Preparation for Long Races

29:07 The Power of Perseverance

31:29 Relatability in Running Stories

32:07 The Journey of Writing a Book

34:10 Life After Publishing: The Book Tour Experience

36:11 Curiosity and New Adventures in Running

38:06 Biting Off More Than You Can Chew

41:22 The Evolution of Trail Running

45:03 Advice for Aspiring Runners and Storytellers

In this episode, Jeff Garmire, known as 'Legend', shares his incredible journey through the world of endurance sports. With over 30,000 miles of backpacking experience, he discusses his transition from traditional thru-hiking to tackling ultra-marathons and setting Fastest Known Times (FKTs). Jeff elaborates on his experiences with the Great Western Loop, the Colorado Trail, and the Cocodona 250, highlighting the mental and physical challenges he faced along the way. He emphasizes the importance of having a toolkit of strategies to overcome obstacles and maintain motivation during long endurance events. In this conversation, Jeff Garmire shares his insights on endurance racing, training for long-distance events, the importance of recovery, and how to set and achieve personal goals. He discusses the mental and emotional aspects of endurance sports, the significance of rest days, and how to handle pushback from others when pursuing one's passion. Jeff also reflects on his experiences with failure and the lessons learned, as well as his approach to efficiency in long-distance hiking. The discussion wraps up with Jeff's plans for the winter and how he disconnects from metrics to enjoy running.

Check out the PB and Mountains Podcast

Takeaways

• Jeff's journey began with a simple encounter with a thru-hiker.
• He believes in having fun while pursuing difficult challenges.
• The Great Western Loop is a 7,000-mile trek around the West.
• Mental resilience is key in endurance sports.
• Every challenge faced adds tools to your toolkit.
• The Colorado Trail was a significant test of endurance.
• Aid stations in races provide crucial support and motivation.
• Jeff's humor and unique style set him apart in the endurance community.
• He emphasizes the importance of micro-goals during tough times.
• New goals and ideas keep Jeff motivated in his pursuits. The energy of the environment can greatly enhance performance.
• Long-distance races require a different training approach than shorter ones.
• Recovery is crucial for improvement and should be prioritized.
• It's important to manage external opinions when pursuing personal passions.
• Setting goals involves transforming dreams into actionable plans.
• Taking time off from metrics can help maintain the joy of running.
• Failures can provide valuable lessons and insights for future attempts.
• Efficiency in long-distance hiking can be achieved through structured planning.
• Creativity can help break the monotony of long hikes.
• Connecting with the audience is essential for sharing experiences.

Sound Bites

• "I want something really hard."
• "I just enjoy in the moment when it's tough."
• "I just dove into this."
• "You just never want to run out of tools."
• "I didn't even know how drop bags worked."
• "I love interacting with the other runners."
• "The first 40 miles don't really matter."
• "You need to take rest days every so often."
• "Dreams, goals, plans."
• "Disconnecting from all the metrics."
• "Where can people catch up with you?"

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Jeff Garmire: The Legend

02:53 The Evolution of Endurance: From Thru-Hiking to Ultra Running

05:46 The Great Western Loop: A 7,000-Mile Challenge

12:06 Breaking Records: The Colorado Trail Experience

17:59 Mental Strategies for Endurance Challenges

20:50 Cocodona 250: A Unique Ultra Experience

29:27 The Energy of Endurance Racing

30:53 Training for Long-Distance Races

32:43 The Importance of Recovery

36:36 Overcoming Pushback and Pursuing Passion

40:52 Goal Setting: Dreams, Goals, and Plans

43:45 Winter Training and Disconnecting from Metrics

45:15 Learning from Failures

48:56 Efficiency in Long-Distance Hiking

57:04 Connecting with the Audience