Author Rachel Kushner and host/visual artist Chloe Aftel first met after the success of Rachel’s first novel and have worked collaboratively ever since. Now, the pair reunite for the latest episode of The Other Pod to discuss her new novel, Creation Lake, and dive into everything creative process and ideation. They discuss the way their artistic processes align and differ across mediums, the journey to capture shifting perspectives, and the kinetic, alive energy that comes with creating.

Highlights:

• Rachel reflects on the tricky balance and ultimate catharsis of writing first-person characters whose thoughts and judgments are antithetical to her own;
• How a writing exercise with her husband led to a crucial breakthrough in the story structure of Creation Lake;
• The lessons she’s learned in this career regarding ego, self-perception, dissociation, and staying monkish when it comes to praise;
• Rachel’s unique, instinctual connection to her characters and crafting story.

Rachel Kushner is an author long-listed for the Booker Prize, responsible for the widely loved novels Telex from Cuba, The Flamethrowers, and The Mars Room. Her latest novel, Creation Lake, releases September 4, 2024. You can keep up with Rachel on her website and find all her written work here.

Chloe Aftel has spent her career working in commercial photography, photojournalism, and film. She’s an established name in modern photography with work featured in The New York Times, Mother Jones, Playboy, Dazed & Confused, Vogue Germany, The Hollywood Reporter, The Wall Street Journal, Vogue Italia, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stone, Teen Vogue & more. Chloe has photographed victims of sexual violence, reported on Covid’s impact on the trans community, and gained access as the first reporter in the Covid wards of the West Coast’s hardest hit hospitals. She has covered underground abortion providers, the impact of gender pronouns on daily life, and clergy abuse. Her first book, “Outside and In Between,” is an award-winning anthology covering gender non-conforming people across America.

Support The Other Pod on Patreon for episode extras and The Other Questions lightning round!
Follow Chloe on Instagram @chloeaftel to stay up to date on new work.
Find all episodes of The Other Pod here.

Serene Khader may not be what you typically think of when you hear the word philosopher. She came into philosophy with the heart of an activist and an eye for public policy, interested in reconsidering the ways in which we think about, advocate for, and ultimately drive movements for justice forward. Serene talks with host Chloe Aftel about what exactly the job of a philosopher is, the role of philosophy in changing the lives of women from the global South and here in the United States, as well as how being inquisitive about our mental frameworks and assumptions may just be the key to achieving justice.

Highlights:

• Bridging the theoretical with the practical when philosophizing on social justice;
• What to take away from student protests and uprisings;
• How to engage with the political election cycle: a philosophical perspective married with immediate implications;
• A philosopher’s guide to dealing with despair and finding hope for the future

This episode aired before President Biden dropped out of the election.


Serene Khader is a philosopher and feminist theorist with areas of research including ethics and moral psychology, political philosophy, and feminist philosophy. She holds the Jay Newman Chair in Philosophy of Culture at Brooklyn College and teaches Philosophy and Women’s and Gender Studies at the CUNY Graduate Center. Her upcoming trade book Faux Feminism: Why We Fall for White Feminism and How We Can Stop will be published by Beacon Press in 2024. Previous books include Decolonizing Universalism: A Transnational Feminist Ethic (Oxford University Press 2018) and Adaptive Preferences and Women’s Empowerment (Oxford University Press 2011). You can find more of Serene’s work on her website.

Chloe Aftel (she/they) has spent her career exploring narratives of identity and belonging. She’s an established name in modern photography with work featured in The New York Times, Mother Jones, Playboy, Dazed & Confused, Vogue Germany, The Hollywood Reporter, The Wall Street Journal, Vogue Italia, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stone, Teen Vogue & more. Chloe has photographed victims of sexual violence, reported on Covid’s impact on the trans community, and gained access as the first reporter in the Covid wards of the West Coast’s hardest hit hospitals. She has covered underground abortion providers, the impact of gender pronouns on daily life, and clergy abuse. Her first book, “Outside and In Between,” is an award-winning anthology covering gender non-conforming people across America. Aftel is working on her next feature book on male bisexuality.

Support The Other Pod on Patreon for episode extras and The Other Questions lightning round!
Follow Chloe on Instagram @chloeaftel to stay up to date on new work.
Find all episodes of The Other Pod here.

“You have to allow yourself to sit in your fire and burn.”

Rapsody is back from her hiatus with the jam-packed, undeniably raw and emotionally attuned new album Please Don’t Cry. Host Chloe Aftel dives deep with Rapsody to explore all the emotional healing that took place behind the scenes for this record to come into creation, how her background and upbringing influence the music she makes decades later, and all that Rapsody has learned along the way about love, spirituality, and the music industry.

Highlights:

• The rapper’s journey from growing up as youngest sibling of five in North Carolina to a multi-decade career in the rap industry;
• Her friendships and lessons learned from Erykah Badu, Kendrick Lamar, Jay-Z, and more;
• What she learned from Glennon Doyle’s book Untamed on her healing journey and unlearning the “good girl syndrome” in her own life;
• Navigating the tricky web of being a female rapper, going against the grain of what is expected.

Rapsody (born Marlanna Evans) is a Grammy-nominated songwriter and rapper celebrating the release of her fourth studio album, Please Don’t Cry. The album brings together a multitude of profound artists, including Erykah Badu, Lil Wayne, Alex Isley, Baby Tate, and more. Largely hailed as one of the greatest living lyricists of her genre, Rapsody has a unique skill for wordplay, timing, and rhyme patterns and has amassed a global fanbase for her music. In her latest, 22-track album, Evans goes deeper and more introspective than ever before, letting the world know exactly how she is. Stream Please Don’t Cry wherever you listen to music, and follow Rapsody on instagram, X, and Facebook.

Chloe Aftel has spent her career working in commercial photography, photojournalism, and film. She’s an established name in modern photography with work featured in The New York Times, Mother Jones, Playboy, Dazed & Confused, Vogue Germany, The Hollywood Reporter, The Wall Street Journal, Vogue Italia, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stone, Teen Vogue & more. Chloe has photographed victims of sexual violence, reported on Covid’s impact on the trans community, and gained access as the first reporter in the Covid wards of the West Coast’s hardest hit hospitals. She has covered underground abortion providers, the impact of gender pronouns on daily life, and clergy abuse. Her first book, “Outside and In Between,” is an award-winning anthology covering gender non-conforming people across America. Aftel is working on her next feature book on male bisexuality.

Support The Other Pod on Patreon for episode extras and The Other Questions lightning round!
Follow Chloe on Instagram @chloeaftel to stay up to date on new work.
Find all episodes of The Other Pod here.

Kathleen Hanna has been defying expectations and stereotypes on and off the stage since she was a teenager playing in Bikini Kill. Join host Chloe Aftel in an intimate conversation with the revolutionary Kathleen Hanna on the process of writing her new memoir Rebel Girl, how writing such an honest reflection was more vulnerable than performing on stage ever was, and where she finds herself now finally pursuing a calm(er) life. Kathleen reflects on her career in the feminist and punk movement, her music with Le Tigre and Bikini Kill, raising money for girls' education in Togo, her experience working with women's shelters, and much more.

Highlights:

- Kathleen's reflections on falling in love with her husband Adam Horovitz;

- How she grounds herself, finds peace and gratitude offline, and redefines what a successful career can mean;

- Kathleen's unique perspective on the state of feminism and financial equality today.

Kathleen Hanna is a punk singer, musician, activist, and writer, famous for her bands Bikini Kill and Le Tigre. She was massively influential in the third wave feminism movement of the 90's and 2000's through music, activism, and multimedia projects like the notorious Riot Grrrl zine. Her new book Rebel Girl is out everywhere. You can find Kathleen Hanna live on tour with Bikini Kill this summer.

Chloe Aftel has spent her career working in commercial photography, photojournalism, and film. She’s an established name in modern photography with work featured in The New York Times, Mother Jones, Playboy, Dazed & Confused, Vogue Germany, The Hollywood Reporter, The Wall Street Journal, Vogue Italia, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stone, Teen Vogue & more. Chloe has photographed victims of sexual violence, reported on Covid’s impact on the trans community, and gained access as the first reporter in the Covid wards of the West Coast’s hardest hit hospitals. She has covered underground abortion providers, the impact of gender pronouns on daily life, and clergy abuse. Her first book, “Outside and In Between,” is an award-winning anthology covering gender non-conforming people across America.

Support The Other Pod on Patreon for episode extras and The Other Questions lightning round!
Follow Chloe on Instagram @chloeaftel to stay up to date on new work.
Find all episodes of The Other Pod here.

J. Harrison Ghee has never fit in in the traditional sense; in fact, it’s their very ability to stand out that allows them to reflect humanity so beautifully in their roles in shows like Kinky Boots, Some Like It Hot, Mrs. Doubtfire & Chicago. As Ghee sits down for an inspiring conversation with host/artist Chloe Aftel, they are fresh off a Tony win and in preparation for their upcoming solo concert in Indianapolis, titled "The Beauty of Life." The pair discuss the positive impact of theater on exploring difficult topics, and Ghee shares just how much theater and drag has meant in the course of their life and identity.

Highlights:

• Their long journey to understanding their non-binary identity and how it has influenced their portrayal of humanity across a myriad of different characters;
• Ghee’s journey with their home state of North Carolina: going from being targeted in their youth to eventually receiving the Human Rights Campaign Visibility Award in NC;
• The beauty of letting expression and presentation naturally flow and shift day-to-day, and the spiritual nature of allowing your soul and intuition to guide these choices;
• The importance of having a supportive community and how the conversations Ghee and their mother have on identity continues to evolve to this day.

J. Harrison Ghee is an award-winning American actor and singer known for their role in Some Like It Hot, Kinky Boots, and their role originating the character Andre Mayem in the musical Mrs. Doubtfire. They have won both a Tony and a Grammy for their immense talent and dedication to the craft, and they inspire others every day to accept their true selves. In recent years, they have also moved to work on screen, with several performances on television, including the role of Kwame on Netflix’s Raising Dion. Keep up with J. Harrison on their Instagram page here.

Chloe Aftel has spent her career working in commercial photography, photojournalism, and film. She’s an established name in modern photography with work featured in The New York Times, Mother Jones, Playboy, Dazed & Confused, Vogue Germany, The Hollywood Reporter, The Wall Street Journal, Vogue Italia, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stone, Teen Vogue & more. Chloe has photographed victims of sexual violence, reported on Covid’s impact on the trans community, and gained access as the first reporter in the Covid wards of the West Coast’s hardest hit hospitals. She has covered underground abortion providers, the impact of gender pronouns on daily life, and clergy abuse. Her first book, “Outside and In Between,” is an award-winning anthology covering gender non-conforming people across America.

Support The Other Pod on Patreon for episode extras and The Other Questions lightning round!
Follow Chloe on Instagram @chloeaftel to stay up to date on new work.
Find all episodes of The Other Pod here.

Catherine Coleman Flowers grew up in the rural South amidst a tight-knit family, from a line of determined women with no choice but to make a bad situation better. In this inspiring conversation, host Chloe Aftel talks with Catherine about the good, the bad, and the ugly of a life spent advocating for community justice and the work still left to do. From working on the raw sewage issue in her rural community to now working in national policy and governmental strategy, Catherine Coleman Flowers has seen it all — and is still nowhere near done.

Highlights:

• Catherine’s guide to building lasting community and turning rage into productivity and strategy;
• What she learned from Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King;
• Growing up with a mother organizing with the Alabama Civil Liberties Union after being sterilized against her will;
• The conversations she now has with the younger generation and how everyone can make a difference, regardless of location, education, or occupation.

Catherine Coleman Flowers is a highly accomplished activist working in the intersections of environmental, climate, and public health justice, with much of her work focused on improving water and sanitation infrastructure in Black, Indigenous, Latinx, and poor rural communities in the United States. She is the Vice Chair of the White House Environmental Justice Advisory Council, the 2020 MacArthur Fellow for Environmental Health Advocacy, the Founding director of the Center for Rural Enterprise and Environmental Justice, and a member of the Biden-Sanders Unity Task Force on Climate Change, amongst many other accomplishments. Her memoir, Waste: One Woman’s Fight Against America’s Dirty Secret, can be found here. You can stay up to date with Catherine’s work on Instagram @CatherineCFlowers, and X @CathFlowers.

Chloe Aftel (she/they) has spent her career exploring narratives of identity and belonging. She’s an established name in modern photography with work featured in The New York Times, Mother Jones, Playboy, Dazed & Confused, Vogue Germany, The Hollywood Reporter, The Wall Street Journal, Vogue Italia, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stone, Teen Vogue & more. Chloe has photographed victims of sexual violence, reported on Covid’s impact on the trans community, and gained access as the first reporter in the Covid wards of the West Coast’s hardest hit hospitals. She has covered underground abortion providers, the impact of gender pronouns on daily life, and clergy abuse. Her first book, “Outside and In Between,” is an award-winning anthology covering gender non-conforming people across America. Aftel is working on her next feature book on male bisexuality.

Support The Other Pod on Patreon for episode extras and The Other Questions lightning round!
Follow Chloe on Instagram @chloeaftel to stay up to date on new work.
Find all episodes of The Other Pod here.

Lois McMaster Bujold is a rare writer in the sci-fi world. She creates truly unique worlds with characters unlike any others. She has been writing for decades and is both astute in her writing technique as well as continually curious about what stories deserve to be told.
I loved hearing about her characters, her life and her values in how all these elements shape her work, but I enjoy, even more, how much she has grown through her books and her interactions with readers.

Support The Other Pod on Patreon for episode extras and The Other Questions lightning round!
Follow Chloe on Instagram @chloeaftel to stay up to date on new work.
Find all episodes of The Other Pod here.

Not many bands can say they have been performing, writing, and evolving together for over 30 years with their friendship intact, but Sleater-Kinney can. Corin and Carrie of Sleater-Kinney sit down for a conversation with host Chloe Aftel to discuss their new album, Little Rope, a new side to the Portland-based rock band. Chloe shares the way their music in the 90s impacted her own life with their fearlessness, honesty, and emotional exploration, and the pair dive into the ways their creative process and sound have evolved since then. They talk about failure as a gift, how their songwriting has shifted in style but steadfast in honesty, and the challenges of hearing themselves grow up through their music.

Highlights:

• Carrie discusses the difference between music and TV fame after the success of Portlandia and the importance of maintaining a level of mystery;
• Corin and Carrie reflect on their early days touring with Pearl Jam;
• The band discusses their longstanding friendship, the role of humor and playfulness in song-writing and in friendship, and the value of communication in creative partnership;
• Their intentional choice to live in places where fame is not the primary focus in order to maintain privacy.

Sleater-Kinney is an influential American rock band known for their powerful sound, feminist lyrics, and dynamic performances. The band formed in 1994 in Olympia, Washington, with Corin Tucker and Carrie Brownstein on vocals and guitar and Lora Macfarlane on drums, followed by Janet Weiss. Their early work garnered critical acclaim for their raw, energetic sound and socially conscious lyrics that addressed issues like gender, sexuality, and politics. The band went on hiatus from 2006-2014 and has been releasing music ever since, including work with collaborators like St. Vincent. Their newest album, Little Rope, was released earlier this year and explores a new side of the classic band, proving their connection and songwriting prowess has only improved with time.

Chloe Aftel has spent her career working in commercial photography, photojournalism, and film. She’s an established name in modern photography with work featured in The New York Times, Mother Jones, Playboy, Dazed & Confused, Vogue Germany, The Hollywood Reporter, The Wall Street Journal, Vogue Italia, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stone, Teen Vogue & more. Chloe has photographed victims of sexual violence, reported on Covid’s impact on the trans community, and gained access as the first reporter in the Covid wards of the West Coast’s hardest hit hospitals. She has covered underground abortion providers, the impact of gender pronouns on daily life, and clergy abuse. Her first book, “Outside and In Between,” is an award-winning anthology covering gender non-conforming people across America.

Support The Other Pod on Patreon for episode extras and The Other Questions lightning round!
Follow Chloe on Instagram @chloeaftel to stay up to date on new work.
Find all episodes of The Other Pod here.